Wednesday November 22, 2006

New Times vs. ignore

New Times Clarification re ignore

If there’s one thing ignore’s good at, it’s handing out a dissing. Last week New Times gave them the opportunity, and they brought their blog out of a month-long hibernation to take NT down a peg:

Hey Jean, why do we keep receiving inquisitive calls from Lara Coppola every time she sees her name (and, more scarily and ethically dubious, misquotes attributed to her by you) in your column? Why does Ms. Coppola think that “we must have talked to you” because, well, she hasn’t? According to Lara, she has never spoken to you. She doesn’t even know who the fuck you are, just like Wikipedia, which recently erased your self-posted entry because you were deemed, we shit you not, “irrelevant.”

We’re guessing someone will soon be calling the big doggies in Colorado…again.

At issue is this article, which, um — borrows — images, and possibly the whole concept, from a months-old ignore feature about Kareem Edouard. Here’s a link to the blog rant, which also includes a swipe at Miami Nights.

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  1. Big Deal    Wed Nov 22, 08:55 AM #  

    There’s a reason why they’re called “ignore.”

  2. Duran    Wed Nov 22, 08:58 AM #  

    Why swipe at Miami Nights? It’s not like we are even cover the same shit or have the same purpose. Whatever, I don’t take an insult from a wannabe magazine too seriously anyway.

  3. Holiday Spirit    Wed Nov 22, 10:22 AM #  

    I don’t know what I hate more…reading about The Bitch, ignore or Lara Coppola (not familar with Miami Nights). But I won’t deny that I love me some Miami blogland gossip early in the morning!

  4. confused.    Wed Nov 22, 10:44 AM #  

    Read the post. So the MNE Editor Jean Carey is making up quotes? Is that the argument? Heavy allegation.

  5. alesh    Wed Nov 22, 11:17 AM #  

    Miami Nights is one of those new blogs. I had some issues with them early on, but they’re pretty good. I changed the name above to a link; check them out.

    It’s sort of a heavy allegation. Jean seems to have a lot of enemies in the blogs, remember that thing with the Dirt?

    Just sayin’.

  6. Duran    Wed Nov 22, 11:31 AM #  

    I’ve met Jean Carey personally. Like I was in her office at the New Times and had a one-on-one with her. Blogs make her sound like some crazy psycho bitch, but she was nothing but super nice when I met her. A lot of people have accused her of many things, but I think if they were true Village Voice Media would have fired her already.

  7. Holiday Spirit    Wed Nov 22, 11:47 AM #  

    Okay, so New Times stole an idea from a local site. In retrospect, after re-reading, I think that ignore may have a good point here. Those articles are really similar. As for the photo thing, I am indifferent. Not enough information was provided.

    Duran: I don’t know Jean Carey, but all you need to know about Jean Carey as a journalist is this…

    She has made some extremely unprofessional decisions and back when she wrote those scathing things about her co-workers, most of the people in this city who keep up with blog gossip (like The Dirt) thought she was going to be fired or at least sent to the pound. If ignore wants to call her out for another poor judgement, more power to them. Meeting someone in an office is meeting someone in an office, doesn’t make up for past mistakes. As some people have said, there is a reason why she has enemies in this little city.

  8. Fake Quotes?    Wed Nov 22, 12:29 PM #  

    Based on the linkage then, Jean made up this entire encounter below in her column. If Coppola didn’t say the following and hasn’t met Jean, then, as a reader of New Times, I think there is an obvious conflict here. If true, can you argue against that?

    Below is the excerpt.

    Pressed for an explanation, Coppola, whose platinum shag and kohl-rimmed eyes belie a reserved and deeply discreet demeanor, would say only that there were some issues about money, some questions about direction. Then the native Miamian added with a half-laugh: “I know this sounds like an irrational thing to say about nightclub culture here, but I have my reputation to consider. That’s all I can really say.”

  9. Manola Blablablanik    Wed Nov 22, 12:35 PM #  

    Hmm … but let’s be realistic here. The problem is that anyone in the world who wishes to interview Kareem can do so, as he has apparently not singled out any publication for exclusivity. Nor do the photos seem to be exclusive. Probably straight out of a media kit, available to all. With the feature-length film scheduled to come out in 2007, expect many more interviews, if they aren’t already out there. With a topic like this getting national attention, I don’t see how ignore can claim they were copied, because it’s not exclusive. I mean, then you might as well say ignore vs. the rest of the world media.

    The ignore article may be months-old, but the editorial calendar at NT may be even older. In fact, the NT may have been holding out for publication. Who knows.

    Based on the nature of the film and the topic at hand, the interview questions will be similar, although ignore’s are a bit more elaborate and tongue-in-cheek. The introductions to the interview are also different. I don’t see how anything was “stolen” here unless it’s verbatim. Publications cover the same story all the time … am I missing something here?

  10. Manola Blablablanik    Wed Nov 22, 12:40 PM #  

    Oh … I see if the photo was exclusive, then yes, it should’ve been credited, unless ignore has no byline requirements. Still, why copy a pix from another mag when you can get one from a media kit.

  11. Re: Manola    Wed Nov 22, 12:47 PM #  

    This is a legal issue. i think the problem is is that New Times published a photo that was shot by another magazine. That is illegal is you know anything about communication law. The fact that New Times also wrote the story in a similar fashion and then allegedly denied even having knowledge of the other publication (which I have trouble believing, given they’re so astute with the blog community and Ignore’s been here as long as any of them), is what I think has led to this sort of humorous, paritally-unintelligible rant by Ignore. Your talking about a New Times. If this happened in reverse, New Times would sue, no questions asked.

  12. Re: Manola    Wed Nov 22, 12:52 PM #  

    I’m not sure what you mean by “byline requirements.” In theory, what you’re suggesting is that New Times might like a cartoon used by Mad Magazine, so they simply print the same cartoon but credit Mad Magazine. Honey, it doesn’t work that way.

  13. Big    Wed Nov 22, 01:09 PM #  

    It’s like that guy in the movie Big who pisses off Tom Hanks? “i don’t get it.”

  14. oldswish    Wed Nov 22, 01:13 PM #  

    What is ignore magazine?

  15. Holiday Spirit    Wed Nov 22, 01:17 PM #  

    Re: Oldswish

    Those words in bold that Alesh posts? Those are called links. Search for one that says “ignore” and make a clicky. Hope that helps. And btw, what’s an “oldswish.” Ew.

  16. oldswish    Wed Nov 22, 01:43 PM #  

    1.Old swish is an elderly gay man. 2. Olds wish, is one wishing for an Oldsmobile.

  17. Manola Blablablanik    Wed Nov 22, 01:55 PM #  

    Dear #12 and #13 who shall remain anonymous, may I call you sweetheart, since you called me honey?

    Of course I know it doesn’t work that way. As you know, there is a photo credit in the ignore article, which is attributed to a person and not a photographer associated with a photo agency. I don’t know why NT just tried to acquire a photo from stock, a media kit or an agency, in which case they would’ve had to publish the appropriate byline as required by the agency along with the photo. I can understand ignore’s gripe here, with regard to the photo.

    But invariably other interviews will pop up all over the place if they already haven’t. The story is not exclusive to one publication.

  18. alesh    Wed Nov 22, 01:58 PM #  

    I always wondered if ‘oldswish’ had any relation to ‘oldpro’ on Arblog.

    And yes, I spend lots of time and money making all those links. Good things come to those who click.

    Manola~ ignore claims their photographer took the photos. If the stories are in content and tone, then they arguably have an ethical, though not legal, obligation to drop ignore some credit. Bob Norman always goes off on one newspaper if he thinks they're sealing stories from another.

  19. Holiday Spirit    Wed Nov 22, 02:38 PM #  

    I keep checking these post like crack hoping Jean responds here. It’s a little odd that she hasn’t given how happy and present they were a month ago when they went against the entire miami blogging community, ironically by embracing it like they were its newly hip parents.

  20. j-j    Wed Nov 22, 02:55 PM #  

    Manola, I’m with you on this, the picture stuff does happen and a correction has been made: BTW all newspapers do this, people make mistakes, yeah even professional journos…

    I think that Ignore are trying to ride the wave …they have no exclusivity on this issue and Sire Esquire 9the writer of the piece) did not copy them …

  21. oldswish and me    Wed Nov 22, 03:07 PM #  

    oldswish, i’ll try to explain (warning: poorly) what ignore magazine is if you cna explain what in the bejesus a “twatwaffle” is. thanks.

  22. Manola Blablablanik    Wed Nov 22, 03:26 PM #  

    It’s Flickritis, infecting the last holy bastion of journalism! Be afraid! Be very afraid!

    Oldswish and me, a “twatwaffle” is when you buy breakfast for a ho at the Denny’s on Collins at 5 am.

    Now can you explain?

  23. Mark    Wed Nov 22, 03:36 PM #  

    Manola, maybe it’s a geography thing, but…


    and as for this post, be easy on ignore. support your DIY sites, people! NewTimes needs no allies.

  24. alesh    Wed Nov 22, 03:59 PM #  

    I agree with Mark. NT’s denials “we didn’t even know there was such a thing as ignore” tend to suggest that they knew damn well what they were doing. And the obvious pseudonymity of “Sire Esquire.”

  25. oldswish    Wed Nov 22, 04:06 PM #  

    I…am…a…twatwaffle…for shame, for shame.
    And yes, it does have something to do with oldpro. It’s refreshing to know someone has their ear to the ground.

  26. Holiday Spirit    Wed Nov 22, 04:28 PM #  

    Still no NT comments? Call me shocked.

  27. Manola Blablablanik    Wed Nov 22, 04:32 PM #  

    Mark, I was kidding … it was to tease Miami Beach 411 … there really are a few ho’s left working on that stretch of Collins. :-)

  28. Critical Miami    Wed Nov 22, 07:00 PM #  

    shame on you for promoting such triviality as some kind of important ethical issue. so petty.

  29. Christian Calzadillas    Wed Nov 22, 08:51 PM #  

    There’s a Denny’s on Collins??

  30. Christian Calzadillas    Wed Nov 22, 08:53 PM #  

    Oh, wait! There are ho’s on Colllins??

  31. Biscayne Bystander    Thu Nov 23, 03:05 PM #  

    Holiday Cheer is half right on this one.

    Chuck’s previous actions should give people the reasonable expectation that he (or someone from MNT) would chime in on this potentially legitimate issue. Defending against accusations of plagiarism is certainly more important than what warranted his response to the twatwaffle cook off that took place on the Dirt (& apparently sponsored by Denny’s). FYI: Hoes for hire can still be found walking regular shifts near the year old Starbucks down my block.

    I think people are 1) overlooking the hunger a local emerging artist has for exposure and 2) confusing timelines not offered by the accusing site. Google Search Kareem+Edouard and you’ll find several sites all with featured stories on Kareem (gothamist has an article dating as far back as Jan 5). Seems a bit of a stretch to say MNT stole this article from an outlet I am now hearing about for the very first time.

    Perhaps ignore should consider rebranding themselves as overlooked.

    Happy Turkey Day & drive safe

  32. Holiday Spirit    Fri Nov 24, 01:07 PM #  

    Thanks BB. There might be other stories on Kareem Edouard, but the case here lies with a photo that Ignore took and New Times allegedly took. When Ignore says they called out New Times, New Times said what you are saying “who?” And yours is a valid argument right? Except Jean Carey, the editor over there who had to know of the Kareem piece and had probably seen Ignore’s story (it’s not THAT unknown, I knew about it before I knew about Critical Miami), mentioned Ignore Magazine in her Bitch column, feigning familarity. So, yeah, where the hell is Chuck on this one? Silence means guilt in my book.

  33. alesh    Fri Nov 24, 01:25 PM #  

    Exactly, HS. And there’s no ‘allegedly’ about it — ignore DID take the photo and NT DID run it. Without permission, as the “Clarification” proves.

    BB~ The ignore story came first for sure. Check it out: i linked to it back in March. As far as I can tell, the only way it could have gotten into the NT was for someone to GET it from ignore.

  34. Browsing    Tue Nov 28, 01:35 AM #  

    Did this resolve itself? I read New Times’ blog today and didn’t see any follow-throughs or any mention. Surprising to me. Seemed like a controversial issue last week. No comments in the thread by New Times’ Riptpde.Did it blow-over, money exchanged hands or however these things work out? Clueless. Miami’s blogosphere is an odd thing though.Sorry if I’m behind the times here.

  35. Dan    Thu Nov 30, 11:54 AM #  

    BB, Crit. Miami, etc. —

    Maybe MNT hasn’t commented here because they’ve never heard of Critical Miami?

    Suppressing a snicker,

  36. Today's NT    Thu Nov 30, 02:57 PM #  

    No mention of that mag’s smack down and allegations in today’s paper. I thought there was nothing to the post last week, so I didn’t comment, but BB’s skepticism above seems founded to me.

  37. Dan    Thu Nov 30, 03:19 PM #  

    One small point, for those that actually take this “Miami New Times hadn’t even heard of Ignore until now” stuff seriously — there are several ex-Miami New Times staffers who went to work at Ignore directly after their time there, so I seriously doubt everyone at the paper had never heard of Ignore. It’s a bit difficult to say you’ve never heard of a magazine when staffers have already said they’re leaving your paper for said magazine.

    There could be other reasons, after all, that there’s no mention of the “smack down” in this week’s NT — like, for example, NT has no legitimate excuse for what happened, soo they’re just “ignoring” it, so to speak.

  38. alesh    Thu Nov 30, 09:27 PM #  

    Yes, Dan, you have a point. But damn, settle down there!

  39. Dan    Fri Dec 1, 09:27 AM #  

    Oh, I’m settled. Didn’t mean to come off as harsh — I’ve got a few friends over at the Miami NT, and more at the Broward NT — hell, the editor of the Miami paper broke me into South Florida journalism, so I’ll always be deeply indebted to the man. And I left New Times on, I believe, very good terms.

    Just pointing out the staffing crossovers, for those that didn’t know.

  40. chuck strouse    Fri Dec 1, 04:15 PM #  

    I love you, Dan Sweeney…..